March 20th, 2010
07_12
Cillian is really fucking odd.
But you’ll learn more about Cillian and his weirdness later. So far you know 1) He chews his hair and 2) he thinks sex is GROSS.
Top panel brush is Victorian Corners by Green Eyed Butterfly.
NOT ARGUING OVER THE OFFENSIVENESS LEVEL OF THE TERMS WEIRD AND ODD ANYMORE IM DONE GUYS. Seriously.
I’m going to go back to watching jellyfish princess now. It’s so good.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
I would first like to say I have only been recently introduced to your comic but I am already in love with the characters/story/art. I do feel awkward commenting on an older page but there is a reason for that. I don’t normally have any problems but your comment on this page really rubs me the wrong way. At first I was happy to find out that you made Cillian asexual since they are rarely portray in the media at all. But when I read you comment it came out as somewhat rude. I don’t associate the phrase “fucking odd” or “weird” as a complement; I associate it with dislike of people who are different. Being asexual myself and having OCD (I am assuming Cilian hair chewing is a form of OCD) it’s somewhat of a smack to my face to have a character I can somewhat relate to being called “fucking odd” and weird”.
I am sorry if I, myself came off as rude and I don’t usually point things like this out but am tired of acting passive to ignorance even if not intentional.
I am pretty sure you didn’t intend to come off that way but I’ll regret it later if I say nothing.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
ummmm I think you took that totally the wrong way. him being ‘really fucking odd’ is about him AS A WHOLE PERSON as far as the comment from me personally is concerned. Like I said in the comment, there is more to him than just those two aspects that make him ‘weird’. Those are only two tidbits into his character.
As for Aubrey calling Cillian ‘odd’ it IS true. For them, the fact Cillian thinks sex is gross and gets queasy when people talk about it IS odd. It’s unusual. And the term ‘odd’ is a synonym for ‘unusual’ and personally i find NO negative connotation for ‘odd’. In fact, it’s a nicer term, imho which is why Aubrey used it. She’s a nice lady – or supposed to be XD She loves her brothers despite and for the oddities. She’s grown up with them and accepted them, but she’s not blind to the fact they’re unusual.
I think you’re taking this WAY too personally because of your connection to the subject. I didn’t intend for my comment to be offensive, and you know, I can’t please everyone nor do I have any intention to. Sorry you took this the wrong way, but I stand by my comment and dialogue.
You’ve never met me- but I curse all the time and often inappropriately, and I am not nor do I have any intention of being ‘politically correct’. I try to handle my subjects with respect, but not everyone agrees with what I do, and at my age, I’m not out to make everyone happy. Some terms are offensive to some people aren’t offensive to others, there is no way for me to keep up with what is or isn’t offensive.
My story deals with a lot of LGBT issues, and even within the community people can’t agree on what terms are offensive and what terms aren’t. I know plenty of people who think ‘gay’ is offensive, while ‘queer’ is not, or ‘fag’ is not offensive but ‘faggot’ is. I am just not going to play those games with words. There is no ‘winning’ in it.
(Sorry for the TL;DR)
January 5th, 2011 at 11:32 pm
I guess this is the page for late comments, haha.
Anyway… I feel like I have to add my two cents to this conversation, because it’s leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. Aubrey’s comment doesn’t bother me at all, nor do I think that’s what Kachina was trying to say; rather, it was your comment on the page that gave me pause. That alone wasn’t really enough to bother me in any big way, but your response to Kachina’s post was.
I’m not saying you intended to be offensive, or even that you have to change the way you phrased what you said, but I think you’ve overreacted a little to a comment that was totally polite in expressing a legitimate concern. When it comes to things like this, intent isn’t really the most important factor. The truth of the matter is that someone (understandably) construed something offensive from your phrasing. It would have been simple enough to offer your apologies and explain that you didn’t mean it in that way. Saying, “I’m sorry you were offended,” doesn’t count.
This isn’t a matter of using a reclaimed term like queer, or fag. You said he was weird, and listed his aversion to sex as an example of this weirdness. Other characters finding him weird is understandable, but from the creator it feels like commentary rather than character. Maybe you don’t find weird to be a negative term, but many people do, and I don’t think it’s inconceivable that some of your readers would as well.
I’ve been really enjoying the comic, and I appreciate your treatment of LGBT themes throughout. I definitely plan to keep reading. This just hits kinda close to home for me, because I’ve been in a position where I said hurtful things that offended a lot of people, and at the time I was very concerned with not being shoehorned or censored into political correctness. What I ended up realizing, years later, was that I cared more about not inadvertently hurting people than I did about using a handful of words. It’s not about winning, it’s about being decent and understanding.
January 5th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
I think I am pretty decent and understanding most of the time, and the treatment of the themes I’ve presented in my work should show that, as you and other people have mentioned. I’m not out to alienate people, or piss people off or anything. However, I’m not going to apologize for hurting someone’s feelings because they take something I’ve said too personally, something that wasn’t even directed at them (considering I havent spoken to her before). I don’t make it a habit to apologize for something I don’t feel I should. “I’m sorry you were offended” does count for me in this case. Because that is what I’m sorry about. I’m sorry my comment page turned into a debate on terminology and that what I said made someone feel bad (I really don’t like getting in these kinds of discussions for this very reason, but as I am the artist, and this is relevant to my work, I want to comment and not ignore these posts in fear of making myself look like an asshole).
I appreciate your concern for Kachina, and I understand your position, but that is how I feel. It’s way too much of a headache to deal with what terminology is offensive and what isn’t when it changes every 6 months. I’m not going to censor myself and double triple check to make sure I’m being politically correct or unoffensive.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:24 am
Since we’re arguing semantics…
“You said he was weird, and listed his aversion to sex as an example of this weirdness.”
“But you’ll learn more about Cillian and his weirdness later. [That is a period there, not a colon, and not a semicolon. These two statements are separate, and while they can be taken as related, there is actually no direct indication that the following statement is being used to cite examples of his weirdness. In fact, it could be construed that, as we will learn more about him and his weirdness later, the things that we do know are actually the normal facets of his personality.] So far you know 1) He chews his hair and 2) he thinks sex is GROSS.”
People bring their own baggage to subjective analysis of words used as adjectives. The fact of the matter is that some behaviors are unusual, or perceived as unusual by the majority, and the majority will use words to describe the fact that these behaviors are unusual. Just as someone who belongs with the unusual group might use words to describe the opposite behaviors as being unusual to -them-. The terms ‘weird’ and ‘odd’ are common descriptors in the English language, and it is unfortunate that someone has used them as insult to another, and unfortunate that that person chose to let themselves be insulted by said words. The onus of the subjective perception of said words is not on the author in this case. These words were clearly not being used in a derogatory fashion.
TL;DR: Context matters, and you can’t please everyone all of the time.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:53 am
“The terms ‘weird’ and ‘odd’ are common descriptors in the English language, and it is unfortunate that someone has used them as insult to another”
Yes, they are common descriptors, and I’d say they are also commonly used to describe things that are bad or distasteful. You can’t really dismiss the connotations of a word, even if it can have multiple meanings. Maybe especially because it can have multiple meanings.
“unfortunate that that person chose to let themselves be insulted by said words”
Offense doesn’t work that way. Apologizing for offense doesn’t work that way. Saying “I’m sorry you were offended” puts blame on the person who was hurt rather than the person who hurt them. It’s not like I’m saying you’re a terrible person because of one mistake or anything, I just don’t think you understand where people are coming from when they are hurt by a careless word choice that might look totally normal to you. When someone points that out, the nice thing to do is just apologize, not jump down their throat about it when they’ve been nothing but polite to you. People don’t choose to be offended by words; they are conditioned, after years of being talked to like they are abnormal or distasteful. That maybe be hard to understand for someone not in their position, but it’s easy enough to correct with a simple and succinct apology.
It’s clear that my small quibble with what has otherwise been a really enjoyable comic has made me unwelcome, though. “GTFO MY WEBSITE if it pisses you off so bad” isn’t a comment I’d expect from someone who values the feelings of her readers, so I’ll thank you for the nice work on what I’ve read so far and leave you to it.
January 6th, 2011 at 2:45 am
“Yes, they are common descriptors, and I’d say they are also commonly used to describe things that are bad or distasteful. You can’t really dismiss the connotations of a word, even if it can have multiple meanings. Maybe especially because it can have multiple meanings.”
You can dismiss those connotations when those connotations are obviously not the connotations that are coming into play in a given situation. These words themselves are not applied specifically to things that are “bad or distasteful.” That is a subjective connotation applied by the reader, and the author did not once indicate that she found the things to which she was applying them to be “bad or distasteful.” When a word has multiple meanings and connotations, you should take your comprehension cues from what is written. How else are we to effectively apply language as a tool? One should not have to specify each and every time which connotation one is using. The surrounding text (and in this case the contents of the comic) do so for us.
Offense does work that way, especially in a situation in which no offense was intended, and the adjectives being used were both neutral and appropriate for the situation being described. Some might choose to take offense at the cursing as well, but it seemed apparent (at least to me), that it was used conversationally. If you are provoked, it is because you have chosen to accept another person’s decree that you be so.
January 6th, 2011 at 3:00 am
oh sweet jesus, THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHY IS IT A BIG DEAL AHHHHHHHHH
Look, you don’t know me. Growing up, no one liked me. I was the outcast. I was depressed, suicidal for several years in my preteen life. I wasn’t the popular girl, and you know what, people insulted me all the time. I would get kicked and hit in the hallway in school by complete strangers for no reason other than my appearance.
I’ve worked through a lot of bullshit in my life, and yes, you know what I’m PISSED that I’m being preached at about political correctness, about not being insulting to other people at something that I HAD NO INTENTION OF BEING INSULTING. If you’ve read the comments I post after each page this is kind of how I roll. I don’t think that I have to take responsibility for someone else’s oversensitivity.
Stop taking out your (the general your, not as you in you specifically, katie) social hangups and problems on other people. It’s not like I walked up to Kachina and was like YOUR FACE, ITS HIDEOUS OMG or jeeze you look so fucking weird. NO. Not at all! What I said was not intended to offend anyone, and the fact that this is so overblown out of proportion is just INSANE. I should NOT have to apologize for someone getting upset at a common descriptive term that honestly, isn’t that negative.
I am not, nor will I EVER, censor myself. If you don’t like that, then like I said, leave. Thank you for reading, I am glad you enjoyed what I had drawn and the story I was telling.
January 6th, 2011 at 3:03 am
Look at the word OTAKU.
Otaku means nerd. In Japan, calling someone an otaku is considered an insult, but here, it is a badge MOST wear with pride.
It’s all in your perspective.
January 6th, 2011 at 3:06 am
Wow, seeing your response to someone who was being more than polite to you… and seeing you on twitter… I’m really sorry I had to give up this comic so soon because of an artist’s attitude. I’m sorry. Good luck in your endeavors.
January 6th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Thank you.
January 31st, 2011 at 11:20 am
I have been enjoying this comic immensely since finding it yesterday and really get a kick out of the authors comments as well as the other readers but this load of b.s is unbelievable so I have to say something. Dechanique, you don’t have anything to apologize for and the apology you gave is more than you should. I think Kachina did take your comments personally when there was no need and her comment WAS rude and uncalled for. She even apologized in her comment for being rude. Dechanique, you are right when you say that you can’t please everyone and everyone needs to remember that they will get offended by someone at some point. That’s life. Get over it! Move on. People who want to make everything inoffensive to everyone are the ones ruining the variety of this world. Political correctness is boring. And to quibble over this like little kids tattling to teacher because your feeling are hurt make you look too immature to even be reading this. Find something important to use that energy on. Dechanique you have done a great job and I am loving your work more and more. Your characters are very real to me. I feel like Cillian could be my twin. I am sorry that you have some readers who feel they need to have the world cater to their every insecurity. I hope you keep the fun comments up and If you feel you need to characterize your creations in a certain way then I hope you haven’t let this affect your decisions. You rock and if I get the chance to be at a con you are at then I will definitely take the time to congratulate your great work and buy some prints.
February 13th, 2011 at 12:16 am
I want to hug you…I was reading your comic today and came upon this page and read your comment. I must say I agree with you. I see where others can be offended and I understand where they come from, but I see no reason for you to apologize. I myself would say the same thing you did about him since in nowadays times you wont find many people who are asexual. I can’t believe people are making such a big deal over this and insulting you like this. Especially the fact that they quit reading because of it. I love your work and will keep reading no matter what. High five from me!
March 7th, 2011 at 9:23 am
I’m asexual. I don’t find anything remotely offensive on this page. That’s because, compared to the majority of human beings who are sexually inclined to some degree or another, asexuals are extremely unusual, and in a society that has arranged marriages and encourages procreation – much like the Judeo-Christian societies of the real-life West – asexuals are going to be viewed as deeply strange. I think it’s appropriate world-building.
March 10th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Wow. I think people are missing something important. Why haven’t the selkie boys turned into seals yet? I thought you said they could in a previous comment and all through this scene at the beach I was just waiting for a chance to see them in seal form! Ah, I hope I get to see their other form at some point. I love them. Love all your characters. I’m still reading from the beginning so I can’t wait to see what more you have! ;D Keep up the good work!
June 6th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Ahaha, people taking a comic personally. Do you also cry when Archie doesn’t pick Bettie or Veronica AGAIN OMG? No? Okay then.
If you can’t handle someone using a term you find DEEPLY PERSONALLY OFFENSIVE, you aren’t emotionally capable of being on the internet alone, much less reading a comic with adult language and themes.
Also if you think about it, sex IS gross. Fluids and mucus and all that all over one another. Icky.
(It is also a lot of fun. If it’s not, you’re doing it wrong.)
October 23rd, 2011 at 10:23 am
“oh sweet jesus, THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHY IS IT A BIG DEAL AHHHHHHHHH”
I agree with you. It’s not a big deal. Your original comment wasn’t out of line, and if I were in your place I wouldn’t remove it.
But there is a big deal, and it’s this: you gotta learn to take comments like Kachina’s less personally!
It’s like if you accidentally dropped something on somebody’s foot. Don’t say “But I shouldn’t have to apologize, it’s not like I was aiming for where you were standing!”, or “But it’s not my fault, you need to be wearing steel-toed shoes for when stuff like this happens!”, or “What, I didn’t see it hit your foot at all! I think it missed your foot entirely!”, or especially not “Look, I’ve had way heavier stuff dropped on my foot in the past, I don’t think that really hurt you much at all”.
Those are all the wrong things to say, even if you privately think they’re true.
The right thing to say when you’ve hurt somebody unintentionally is “Sorry”. Getting up-in-arms about it will just cause shit-storms like the one you observed here.